Thanks for your notes. I checked the NYTs propaganda hit about Biden and uppers. Disgusting for a paper that allegedly reports all the news that's fit to print. I emailed Joe Kahn and the reporters to object to what they consider journalism.
I spent the beginning of a therapy session on this; as you said in your lede, neither therapist nor patient knows what they are going to do at 9 tonight. But I think I'm in. I'm expecting Trump to speak early as if he's debating Hunter Biden, and Joe Biden will be ready to retort.
I watched, and it was ... deplorable and mind-bending, and the moderators were hopeless, failing to even confront him over his assertion - twice told - that doctors and mothers consulted after birth whether to kill the baby. I don't care what their boss told them were their limits; if he fired them as soon as they did what was right they could both get great jobs tomorrow at one of the other networks. This was an utter failure. Apart from the moderators, I wish I could say I was shaken, but I was not. Even after all we have experienced I was disappointed in Biden not aggressively confronting Trump's lies
This is just my opinion, but I've always believed that presidential debates have been vastly overrated in terms of their impact on elections, and I believe that's particularly the case this year, in an environment where millions of voters would actually consider voting for a convicted felon, serial liar, proven rapist and, worse of all, traitor to his own country and the Constitution he swore to uphold. I have no faith in these so-called "undecided" voters who are actually contemplating voting for Trump despite all he has done and said over the past eight years. If they haven't figured him by now, nothing that happens tonight will make a difference. It will probably come down to the price of eggs in November. The road to victory is not what happens tonight but in energizing the pro-democracy base of this country to organize, canvas and get out every vote possible among those who actually give a damn about the survival of our democracy. That will play out over the next several months away from the glare of media punditry and spin over which candidate does a better job tonight of remembering their rehearsed talking points. The fact that Trump will even be standing on a debate stage tonight is a sad reflection of the state of this country and its voters. It's as if Joe McCarthy had stood on a presidential debate stage in 1956 or George Wallace in 1972, only worse, because at the end of the day, I doubt whether either of those two would have literally tried to stage a coup against their own government or would have come so close to succeeding had they tried.
My biggest worry is listening to the pundits repeat ad nauseum, that Joe is ALWAYS underrated …. no analysis …. and so he will do well. On the other hand, TFG is given an unexamined pass by those same pundits as they take for granted TFG’s lack of self control and therefore he’ll lose. If only the press would quit the prediction business &, as you so aptly repeat, report the STAKES and NOT the horse race. I’m exhausted by these slow learners in the press…or perhaps, their bosses.
I like the “ let him lie” approach. I believe that a majority of Americans know a lie when they hear one. This includes the MAGA folks. Like Nixon believed a silent majority supported him (which the 1972 election largely proved correct), I believe a silent majority of Americans are done with Trump. I believe there’s a sizable number of Biden voters under those Club MAGA hats; but it’s difficult for people to tell other Club MAGA members that they aren’t believers. So, yes, let Trump’s lies go out unchallenged tonite and deny his supporters the pleasure of cursing the moderators for challenging him. I’ll know when he’s lying. So will the majority in the TV audience.
I agree with you, Bill. And I think the first sentence out of Biden's mouth every time he follows one of Trump's sewage torrents will be especially critical. That's the one that needs to land hard and well. If you could say just one sentence, what would it be? He'll have awhile to come up with it, and it's worth him taking a pause at the beginning just to make sure he has it. No bluster, no fierce facial grimaces, just clear, succinct, and powerful.
He might start with, “I’ve been a public servant nearly all my life but nothing’s prepared me to debate a lying neurotic felon, rapist and traitor who tried to overthrow the government after losing a fair election.”
I think people know a lie when they hear it, but the problem is that they're hearing what they want to hear, and half of the country isn't paying attention to reality.
Trump is a con man, and people who are looking for a strong man are easily misled.
Where are the stories about the abomination that trump is… he’s a convicted felon and all anyone writes about is Biden… this is outrageous. Who is behind this - the Russians, the rich, the republicans? The media is non-stop about Biden, his age and his campaign… to what end? The SC has sold out the USA … we might be doomed unless some recognizable leadership steps forward for us to rally behind …. Anyone? Anyone?
Much of thr entire NYTimes should be spiked these days - although with as pi**-poor a job as some of them are doing, maybe too much of the staff has already been spiked (though I don’t recommend seinking while on the job).
As for CNN’s lack of fact-checking? It’s abhorent. But Amanda Marcotte’s idea is worthy.
If that’s the position CNN wanted to take.- amd they could do so and be non-partisan about it - they should have said that, instead of the weak and worthless position they took.
Journalism, at base, is about defending facts. If we’re not going to do that, then really - what’s even the point of civilization, let alone journalism?
While CNN now is better than during much of the Licht error/era, the fact remains they’ve got a long way to go to.
Glad you pointed out Amanda’s piece.
Watch your debate drinking words, folks.
Heading out for a walk with the dog, since like our colleagues Margaret, we’ll be working this evening.
I will be abstaining. I think both candidates are liars. I think both candidates have broken the law (if you want to know what federal law Joe Biden has broken I refer you to the Leahy Act). I know Trump is a convicted felon and a sleaze bag. I know Joe Biden is a monster of depravity who has deliberately and willfully violated the Leahy Act to supply weapons to Israel so it can commit genocide against the Palestinian people. I believe both men to be traitors to this country: Trump for all the usual reasons, Joe Biden because he is clearly putting the interests of the Israeli state over those of this nation.
The only difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is that Trump hasn’t proven himself to be an enabler of genocide - yet. And that’s just because he hasn’t been in office the last nine months.
I would never vote for Donald Trump and my conscience will not allow me to vote for Joe Biden. In my opinion, he’s a war criminal.
Thanks for your notes. I checked the NYTs propaganda hit about Biden and uppers. Disgusting for a paper that allegedly reports all the news that's fit to print. I emailed Joe Kahn and the reporters to object to what they consider journalism.
I spent the beginning of a therapy session on this; as you said in your lede, neither therapist nor patient knows what they are going to do at 9 tonight. But I think I'm in. I'm expecting Trump to speak early as if he's debating Hunter Biden, and Joe Biden will be ready to retort.
I watched, and it was ... deplorable and mind-bending, and the moderators were hopeless, failing to even confront him over his assertion - twice told - that doctors and mothers consulted after birth whether to kill the baby. I don't care what their boss told them were their limits; if he fired them as soon as they did what was right they could both get great jobs tomorrow at one of the other networks. This was an utter failure. Apart from the moderators, I wish I could say I was shaken, but I was not. Even after all we have experienced I was disappointed in Biden not aggressively confronting Trump's lies
I started watching, but this is a train wreck! Couldn't Biden's staff given him water or throat lozenges for his voice?
I had the same feeling but had to watch
That is the penalty of success! I did track the WaPo reporters' comments, but they so petered out. It was weird.
Excuse typos. Covid fog.
Here’s my column from last night, filed at 11:42 pm https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/28/trumps-lies-biden-debate
This is just my opinion, but I've always believed that presidential debates have been vastly overrated in terms of their impact on elections, and I believe that's particularly the case this year, in an environment where millions of voters would actually consider voting for a convicted felon, serial liar, proven rapist and, worse of all, traitor to his own country and the Constitution he swore to uphold. I have no faith in these so-called "undecided" voters who are actually contemplating voting for Trump despite all he has done and said over the past eight years. If they haven't figured him by now, nothing that happens tonight will make a difference. It will probably come down to the price of eggs in November. The road to victory is not what happens tonight but in energizing the pro-democracy base of this country to organize, canvas and get out every vote possible among those who actually give a damn about the survival of our democracy. That will play out over the next several months away from the glare of media punditry and spin over which candidate does a better job tonight of remembering their rehearsed talking points. The fact that Trump will even be standing on a debate stage tonight is a sad reflection of the state of this country and its voters. It's as if Joe McCarthy had stood on a presidential debate stage in 1956 or George Wallace in 1972, only worse, because at the end of the day, I doubt whether either of those two would have literally tried to stage a coup against their own government or would have come so close to succeeding had they tried.
My biggest worry is listening to the pundits repeat ad nauseum, that Joe is ALWAYS underrated …. no analysis …. and so he will do well. On the other hand, TFG is given an unexamined pass by those same pundits as they take for granted TFG’s lack of self control and therefore he’ll lose. If only the press would quit the prediction business &, as you so aptly repeat, report the STAKES and NOT the horse race. I’m exhausted by these slow learners in the press…or perhaps, their bosses.
"...fire hose of Trump’s lies..." Gish gallop comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
I like the “ let him lie” approach. I believe that a majority of Americans know a lie when they hear one. This includes the MAGA folks. Like Nixon believed a silent majority supported him (which the 1972 election largely proved correct), I believe a silent majority of Americans are done with Trump. I believe there’s a sizable number of Biden voters under those Club MAGA hats; but it’s difficult for people to tell other Club MAGA members that they aren’t believers. So, yes, let Trump’s lies go out unchallenged tonite and deny his supporters the pleasure of cursing the moderators for challenging him. I’ll know when he’s lying. So will the majority in the TV audience.
I agree with you, Bill. And I think the first sentence out of Biden's mouth every time he follows one of Trump's sewage torrents will be especially critical. That's the one that needs to land hard and well. If you could say just one sentence, what would it be? He'll have awhile to come up with it, and it's worth him taking a pause at the beginning just to make sure he has it. No bluster, no fierce facial grimaces, just clear, succinct, and powerful.
He might start with, “I’ve been a public servant nearly all my life but nothing’s prepared me to debate a lying neurotic felon, rapist and traitor who tried to overthrow the government after losing a fair election.”
I'm 100% happy with that.
I think people know a lie when they hear it, but the problem is that they're hearing what they want to hear, and half of the country isn't paying attention to reality.
Trump is a con man, and people who are looking for a strong man are easily misled.
I want to cringe watch but I eat dinner at that time and I don't want indigestion.
I think Biden will do really well, but Trump riles my stomach if I watch him for more than 30 seconds.
Where are the stories about the abomination that trump is… he’s a convicted felon and all anyone writes about is Biden… this is outrageous. Who is behind this - the Russians, the rich, the republicans? The media is non-stop about Biden, his age and his campaign… to what end? The SC has sold out the USA … we might be doomed unless some recognizable leadership steps forward for us to rally behind …. Anyone? Anyone?
Much of thr entire NYTimes should be spiked these days - although with as pi**-poor a job as some of them are doing, maybe too much of the staff has already been spiked (though I don’t recommend seinking while on the job).
As for CNN’s lack of fact-checking? It’s abhorent. But Amanda Marcotte’s idea is worthy.
If that’s the position CNN wanted to take.- amd they could do so and be non-partisan about it - they should have said that, instead of the weak and worthless position they took.
Journalism, at base, is about defending facts. If we’re not going to do that, then really - what’s even the point of civilization, let alone journalism?
While CNN now is better than during much of the Licht error/era, the fact remains they’ve got a long way to go to.
Glad you pointed out Amanda’s piece.
Watch your debate drinking words, folks.
Heading out for a walk with the dog, since like our colleagues Margaret, we’ll be working this evening.
Peace.
I will be abstaining. I think both candidates are liars. I think both candidates have broken the law (if you want to know what federal law Joe Biden has broken I refer you to the Leahy Act). I know Trump is a convicted felon and a sleaze bag. I know Joe Biden is a monster of depravity who has deliberately and willfully violated the Leahy Act to supply weapons to Israel so it can commit genocide against the Palestinian people. I believe both men to be traitors to this country: Trump for all the usual reasons, Joe Biden because he is clearly putting the interests of the Israeli state over those of this nation.
The only difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is that Trump hasn’t proven himself to be an enabler of genocide - yet. And that’s just because he hasn’t been in office the last nine months.
I would never vote for Donald Trump and my conscience will not allow me to vote for Joe Biden. In my opinion, he’s a war criminal.
Trump thanks you for your vote. Actions have consequences, but so do inactions.